Vince's Pizza

Pizza restaurant · Niles

Vince's Pizza

Pizza restaurant · Niles
9024 N Greenwood Ave, Niles, IL 60714

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Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null
Vince's Pizza by null

Highlights

Offers thin crust pizza, great deals, and friendly service.  

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9024 N Greenwood Ave, Niles, IL 60714 Get directions

vincespizzail.com

$

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9024 N Greenwood Ave, Niles, IL 60714 Get directions

+1 847 296 6600
vincespizzail.com

$

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Last updated

Aug 9, 2025

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thezip882

Google
Great place to get some good pizza 🍕 . I highly recommend. It is a mom and pop type of pizza shop and I prefer this to all the fancy/corporate pizza restaurants. Only got the slice but its huge! Will definitely come back!

Me InAZ

Google
Hi everyone just want to say we love the Pizza at Vince's! They just WON the Pizza wars. VOTED BEST PIZZA IN NILES 2025!!! The prices are great and they have a big menu of yummy stuff. You owe it to yourself check out Vince's. VOTED the best by Pizza lovers.

Victor H

Google
I have been working in this area for over 12 years and this was my first time trying this pizza. The pizza was cooked perfectly but the taste was not all there. I will definitely come back to try other stuff and hopefully that is better.

Ramses Villalba

Google
I paid $18 for a 4 topping small pizza so that was pricy. The lady that gave us the food was nice though. She told us to call the order in directly because uber and grun hub jack up the prices.

Ace Blade

Google
I met a kind lady and gentleman who worked there on Tuesday. The lady helped us out with the menu selection with my friends. The potions are pretty fair. We ordered some onion rings and fries. And a bacon pizza. The pizza got me by surprise. It was so crunchy and soft. The dough,sauce, and cheese portion was perfect. This place needs more recognition. The place is pretty small, I would definitely do carry out. But overall, it was a nice experience. Recommend going back.

Dave Winfrey

Google
I generally only rate restaurants if I love them or hate them. That works out good for Vince’s because what not to love. My girlfriend was getting Filipino food next door so I wandered into Vince’s for carry out. Vince took my order and was very polite and said its all good. So I got a half slab of ribs with fries and a couple slices of cheese pizza for tomorrow’s lunch. The ribs were very good with an awesome flavor. My friend stopped by and ate the pizza, said it was excellent. Price very reasonable. I will be back

Michelle Barbosa

Google
Pizza is good! Owner is really nice too!

Brenda Durham

Google
This was a no thrills basic pizza place where the focus is on the food quality. We found affordable, cheap, fantastic pizza. I am so glad we stopped in. Inside there were 2 small tables and chairs and amazing food. There was one person running the counter and cooking. He was friendly, fast and most importantly a great cook! We wanted to grab a slice and pop but they don't offer slice specials on Sunday so we grabbed a large cheese for 12 bucks and it was delicious plus we have leftovers! We'll be back, just wish we lived closer. Excited to try some of the other menu options!
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Foodie A.

Yelp
Excellent Pizza! No doubt about it, we come here all the time when we are in Illinois. Best Pizza, good crust and chew. Very tastey and family owned and operated. The best pizza for all sporting or parties or Just because. Very clean inside and the staff are so polite. They sell pizza dough, too. Highly Recommended!!

Larissa G.

Yelp
Fantastic shrimp dinner and ribs! Love it Great food, great customer service , food done on time as promised. Larisa G.

Arnie T.

Yelp
Lunch with friends yesterday. Our server was Amazing. However, I ordered hand breaded Chicken STRIPS. First, they "looked" like 3 Tyson breasts right out of a bag. They were more like the chicken should be used for chicken parm. Very disappointed, as the last time we were there they were delicious. Fries were nothing special either, very mediocre meal to say the least.

Mahdi A.

Yelp
food was perfect 2 pizza slices for only 5 dollers and it's very big and it's perfect and the guy is very nice and funny
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Pooja P.

Yelp
I've been coming here for years now, and I love it! They have slices of pizza during the day, and it's a pretty huge slice. I also like the cheese fries - I always get them with a side of ranch. The owner is usually here during the weekdays, and he's super friendly and funny! They have a couple of dine-in tables but mostly a takeout spot. You get a lot of food, and their prices are reasonable. I highly recommend Vince's pizza!

Michael R.

Yelp
It's good for kids. Not much cheese, not much sauce, but a good price. It's affordable which is extremely rare with these dumbass price gouging restaurants nowadays. Get your own marinara for the calamari.

Donna D.

Yelp
Was still going here because of the pizza special, but it's not very good. Increased their prices 35% overnight. For this price, I'll go to Rosattis. Vinces pizza is always very "well done" almost burnt. Man behind the counter not very friendly either and shorted my change twice.

Maya S.

Yelp
Delicious pizza! Great service, very friendly guy who works there. Coming here next time I need a pizza!

Karen C.

Yelp
Food always good, with daily specials and great prices. They have a variety of choices, something for everyone.

BigD H.

Yelp
The cheese pizza looked and tasted like it was purchased at the Walgreens frozen section next door. Yes, it was that bad. It was worth 1 try since it's pizza by the slice, but I definitely won't return. Please at least go to the Walgreens next door for pizza and heat it yourself. This is an avoid.

Randall E.

Yelp
Friendly service. The cheese pizza and chicken alfredo pasta were great. I'll order from here again.
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Ted M.

Yelp
Tried to order from here - what an ordeal. If you dont order EXACTLY as listed on their website or menu, try $13 extra for ONE extra topping - and the woman answering couldn't even explain how she changed the billing! I had recently moved into area and was excited to try this place when i saw they had panzerottis, but after this experience idk if i will try again... Not sure it would be worth the hassle. If i do - I'll be sure to order the items exactly as listed or i will drop in for a slice - from some of the reviews on here it sounds like this place might be okay, they just need to be more flexible and realize quite a few customers might want to add or remove a topping, its not the end of the world for them if they do, nor is it time to gouge the customer by over $10 for one topping. 2 of the other nearby pizza places near here are good and REALLY good, so for this smaller family style old school place stepping up customer service might help business. I wish them luck.
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Jacob J.

Yelp
When I was pulling up to the place my old man looked at me and asked "isn't there anywhere else we can go and get food ?" "Are you sure you'd like to go here? There aren't any others dining here, maybe we too should go elsewhere." It reminded me of a little kid pleading with his father to go somewhere else. I mean, it's because of my old man that I try out different places. I agree with him, it didn't look like much from the exterior. But... I had a Groupon and it was about to expire, so we were going! I originally purchased it thinking I could grab a pie here with a relation that lives nearby. After reading reviews, I decided to (kind of) go it alone. About what my old man said above. Pulling up we could see someone sitting outside the joint. It was one of the cooks, lounging on a chair. He sat completely uninterested and well, wasn't too inviting either. We ordered a small BBQ chicken pizza. Also inquired about their pasta favorites and were told to try the spaghetti arrabiatta. One of those ordered with meat sauce and decided to try their panzerotti which is like a calzone. They offered it fried or baked. The panzerotti can be filled with cheese and pizza sauce as well as any toppings you choose. Each extra ingredient has a $1 dollar up charge. The Spaghetti Arrabiata was good. Chunks of tomatoes and a rich but runny sauce with a bit of spicy to it but where was the meat sauce ?? Served over spaghetti. The BBQ chicken pizza was very average. The sauce tasted like a sweetened Open Pit. (Open Pit is a brand of barbeque sauce) I'd like to say the cheese was oily almost like it had been doused in a bit of butter. The chicken pieces were white meat but all of it was over cooked and dry. Blech. We ripped off every last piece of chicken and tossed it in the trash. I wouldn't be surprised to find out it was frozen cubes. The panzerotti was the worst for me. Above I mentioned that it can be ordered fried or baked. Thank goodness the counter lady suggested I go with baked. She'd also shared aloud that the oil in the fryer looked dark. (UGH!) After watching Gordon Ramsey shows a grievance like new or used vegetable oil in the fryer.. I feel as though if a customer orders something fried they would be willing to change the oil and fry it in fresh oil right? Well, it was baked and it wasn't good. The sauce was okay. The cheese was bountiful and tasteless. That typical white cheese that's so chewy and gross in amount that its an overbearing addition. We added sausage but couldn't taste it. The leftovers are still sitting, I should probably clean the fridge soon. I wish the employees cared more. It looks like it used to be something decades ago. I like the idea behind the 2 for 1 pizzas. The price of the pizza essentially pays the cost of two pies. Their sandwiches and pastas are affordable and their pizza pricing is comparable to any of the fast food pizza chains. Unfortunately there is something lacking in every department. Until it's fixed, this is an average pizza joint. Located in a strip mall with parking. Pizza slices are available.

Crystal M.

Yelp
We ordered pizza and pasta and it was never delivered. No call back or anything. We tried to call them several times that night and the following morning and no one answered. Now we have to call the bank to get our money back. Save your time and money and order from a restaurant that actually serves food!

Proud M.

Yelp
This place have the best pizza not to mention a great deal! We order some pizza for my son birthday and my guest ask me where did I order the pizza from. I told them the name and location. They were impressed with the quality of the pizza that they decided to take left overs home. It was 2 for 1 large pizza for a great price. Thank you for making my son birthday party a hit !!
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Dan D.

Yelp
Good pizza & Great deals. (2 for 1 pizzas, $8.50 Lg. pizza Mon, Tues, & Wed., and FREE 10" pizza or 1L soda for orders over $20). They've always been real friendly every time I order from here and quick. It's not the greatest pizza, but for the money and service, it'll do just fine.
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Fancy N.

Yelp
I'm surprised at some of the positive reviews for Vince's, seriously you folks have to venture out to try other pizza joints! We ordered here for one reason, 2 for 1 deal. The only issue is, its not really a deal, because the price you pay for "1" is not for "1" but for 1.5. Do the owners not really know what 2 for 1 means? Means for the price of 1 pizza, not two different prices for the same pizza. Ripoff. And to make matters worse, the pizza wasn't good at all. Flavorless, sauce tasted like something out of a can from Aldi's. To be quite honest, I would have rather thrown a pizza in the oven than ordered from Vince's. Phone manners could also improve. The lady taking down my order put me on hold several times, told me pizza would be ready in 10 minutes. I thought 10 min was a bit quick, so I confirmed asking her again "only 10 minutes?", she said "yes, 10". I get there 20 min later, and the pizza takes an additional 20, so 40 minutes total, not 10. This place could care less if you return, they got you once, and you leave with a feeling of "so long sucker". Guess what, jokes on you Italian wanna be's.
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Michael C.

Yelp
We love Pizza, just not Vince's. We used a Groupon, and called them. Between all the shouting back and forth in the background it was hard to hear the woman who took our order. When we picked it up and brought it home, we kept thinking that they left out a spice, or salt, or SOMETHING. I did not eat that much of the pizza. On our 16 inch "Vince's Special" (a "loaded" pizza) slices were about 2 inches square. A strange way to slice a pizza. Yes, they had a LOT of topping for the price, but if the flavor is way off, who cares? Plus we got a 25 cent FEE for using a charge card for the remainder of the balance after Groupon. What the....???? It's in a small dive of a Mall next to Walgreens. MEH. My final answer.

Jack S.

Yelp
First time getting Vinces pizza, got a large cheese pepperoni. definitely worth your time also the value is 100% there. great taste, good cheese, crust is crunchy, and sauce very good as well. realistic one out of 10, 8.4
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Rick C.

Yelp
It's a dive take out pizza place, but the pizza's not bad and they have good deals. We're not talking about gourmet pizza, but twenty bucks will feed plenty. Also, the person answering the phone will help you get the best deal. They have a bunch of coupons and meal combinations. The pizza itself is a little greasy, but the crust is thin and pretty crispy. Not bad if you're entertaining and want to buy some cheap pizza.
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Shelly W.

Yelp
Great deal! 2 slices and a can of pop for $4. The lady behind the counter was also very nice. I will definitely be coming back.
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K L.

Yelp
Delgada corteza de la pizza es asombroso! Si eres miembro de la northside lejos de la ciudad y se cri en la pizza de Barry's Spot, y que prefera la delgada corteza, you'll LOVE este Vince's Pizza! Mi esposo y yo crecimos en Edgewater y en Barry en un sorteo, y dos de nosotros comparar la delgada a las suyas. Le dieron libre postres (Peppridge Farms cosas), con su orden y con un 2 x 1 especiales que vale la pena totalmente. Si se encuentra en el Cercano NW burbs, es totalmente valen la pena captar algunos. (Que realmente no puede comer all, creo que todos ellos han de un cuadro) Craig Wolff
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Edgar G.

Yelp
The pizza is good but the service is just decent, if it's a phone in order is gonna be a bad time but if it's person to person then things go pretty well

Indira X.

Yelp
Well, if u want a guy that looks like he just got done doing an oil change to make your food, then this is the place to go. Only 5 star ratings you'll see here must be left by the bugs flying around the place. Came here to eat and heard the chef burping loudly while making my food. Very unappetizing. Food taste like it was made by a cigarette.
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Rebecca D.

Yelp
tried calling to get a quote for a party and the first words out of the woman's mouth after I politely greeted her are "get to the point!" no thanks...I will never order from there.
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Tanja Z.

Yelp
The only place I'll eat thin crust pizza from!!! The crust is crispy and the sausage has great flavor. They don't skimp on toppings.

Nancy D.

Yelp
The 1st time i ordered the delivery woman could not walk up my 4 steps, the 2nd time she could not get out of the car. I have empysema that is why i have delivery. The food is good, just not the delivery
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Shawn P.

Yelp
You know that old saying about restaurants, and how the little ones always make the best food? No? OK, I'll tell you. The littlest restaurants always make the best food! Vince's Pizza is no exception. The dining area is what I would call cozy, with 3 tables and a few chairs so you can wait for your takeout order. While there is a counter that you can walk up and order from, you can also just have a seat and someone will come out and take your order. My experience dining in the restaurant was spectacular! The waitstaff was cordial, and the food was excellent. The pizza has a crispy crust and the sausage is perfect! The fries are battered and cooked to perfection! A huge slice of pizza(1/4 of a 15") that comes with a 12 oz. soda and an order of fries(a lot of fries), and only costs $5.75 usually tastes like cardboard. I don't know how they do it, but Vince's Pizza has to be one of the best places I can think of for great food with great prices, backed by a great staff.

Nisa A.

Yelp
Wow lmao!!! Never thought I'd have to write a review like this. I called Vince's today to ask if they catered or did football size party pizzas ...the lady on the phone got pissed off that I didn't answer her first question of "delivery or pickup". I simply replied with "hi I actually just had a question ." Her response was super rude and was like " what? You have a question !? "And then I asked her the question and she kept saying the same thing over and over again so I hung up because I didn't want to argue again. This woman called me back on her personal phone !!!!!!!!!! And harassed me . I didn't answer so she left me a voicemail !!! Omgosh how unprofessional NEVER EVER COMING HERE AGAIN AND TELLING EVERYONE I KNOW TO NEVER COME HERE
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Joseph L.

Yelp
I am purely giving this place 4 stars for the prices. Their prices are quite reasonable. I like their pizza, not the best I have had but it is average. They do have other things on their menu as well. The staff is friendly and helpful too. I would go back.
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Nicholas K.

Yelp
I am writing this post before i even eat the food the older gentleman that runs the place was yelling and swearing at the cook about him making a 14inch pizza instead 16inch very unprofessional i will not be back

Sara S.

Yelp
TERRIBLE Experience. I had a Groupon for this place and went to dine in during lunch. I had called ahead to place the order and in doing so, the phone experience should have warned me it wasn't worth it. I asked for 2 small pizzas, 1 cheese, 1 with an extra topping. One extra topping on one small pizza is $2.50! I couldn't believe it. When I tried to confirm the price discrepancy, the woman answering the phone grew more agitated and never directly answered me. She kept talking about different scales. She then told me another call was coming in so that she had to go, and I could get the price when I came in. Um, ok. So much for customer service. When we got there, the place was empty except for the not so nice woman who had answered the phone, and a cook in back. The woman was just as unpleasant in person. I again asked if she could tell me how much the one extra topping is and for reasons beyond me, I couldn't get her to give a straight answer. Instead, she started pointing to different things on the wall. Am I crazy to want to know what I am being charged for? She then yells, "HOW MANY TIMES ARE YOU GOING TO ASK ME THE PRICE?" To which I said, "Until you give me a straight answer and stop dodging it." Crazy woman. It's not like the receipt is itemized. She left at soon after to make a delivery, so this piece of sunshine might show up at your door. In terms of the actual food, eh. My friend got the fettucine alfredo and said it was terrible. Something about it tasting like it had been left in the fridge. I didn't taste test it, but a second friend did and agreed. They couldn't eat it beyond a bite a piece and essentially left the whole thing untouched. The pizza we got was ok. But all in all, doesn't matter because none of us are coming back after the experience we had.
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Tara M.

Yelp
Thin crust pizza is awesome! If you're from the far northside of the city and grew up on pizza from Barry's Spot, and preferred the thin crust, you'll LOVE this Vince's Pizza! My husband and I grew up in Edgewater and at at Barry's a lot and both of us compare the thin to theirs. They give you free desserts (Peppridge Farms stuff) with your order and have a 2 for 1 special that's totally worth it. If you're in the Near NW burbs, it's totally worth picking some up. (you really can't eat there, I think they have all of one table)

Bar C.

Yelp
This is not a place worth ordering from. First of all they mess up your order and you don't get everything delivered you paid for, and when you call to tell them the broad that answers the phone is rude and calls you names as she hangs up the phone because she thinks you hung up already. Then it takes them an hour later to fix their screw up. Eating the pizza is like chewing on a cardboard box with no taste. So there you have it , no lies or B.S. just the truth.

Andrew L.

Yelp
My family has been ordering from Vinces over 10 years and I haven't been sick of it yet. We always get their 2 for 1 large special. For a local family owned pizza place, their prices aren't bad. You can get two large pizzas for a little over 20 dollars. The only strike I have against them is their inconsistency. Sometimes, the pizza they make is amazing, and sometimes, its just a little above average. Make sure to always order the pizza well done so it has a nice little crisp!
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Randall K.

Yelp
Ordered for carry out. This was good pizza. Not fantastic, but good pizza. We had thin crust. Price was right. Pizza was hot and good. I'd go back.
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Chris D.

Yelp
$3.50 for a diet pepsi and two large slices of yummy cheese pizza? Yes please!

Steve C.

Yelp
This is a wonderful place that I've been ordering from for years and haven't had any problems. Pizza is ready very quickly (within 20 for pickup) and delivery is fairly prompt.
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Michael P.

Yelp
I had this pizza 2 years ago and it was one of the best I've ever had! If I lived closer I would be a regular customer :)

Melissa T.

Yelp
I hate to be reviewing other businesses very low due to it hurting their reputation. This is not meant for that. I thought that the food was actually fresh and tasted delicious. Not only that, but the delivery driver got to my location within 15min and he was super nice. Now the sad part; it doesn't matter how good the food is if the service was absolutely horrible! The old lady who took my order was so harsh and rude "understatement", made me not want to order anymore. Not only that, but she asked me how much I wanted to tip and suggested a higher amount due to us ordering at 9pm, I said that is fine and I understand and she hangs up on me. That left a sour taste in my mouth. I called her back instantly to cancel my order, because of how she treated me and I didn't want anything to happen to my food. She told me absolutely not because they already started cooking. I wish she was the one who delivered my food to me so that I can teach her some hospitality. No one deserves to be treated like I did last night. I have been in the restaurant business for 10 years, she is lucky that I have patience. If it was anyone else it would have not been pretty. Please don't look at this review as a negative, because your restaurant does serve good food. Please just take some time to review your staff and make valuable changes. I hate to see a restaurant that serves good food to lose customers due to horrible customer service. Thanks. I will probably never order from here again.
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Mayra R.

Yelp
My dad is one picky eater and he loves this place for the thin pizza. It is absolutely delicious!!! Thin and crispy and the toppings are always fresh!!
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Jay G.

Yelp
I just moved to the neighborhood and I recently tried their Cheese pizza, So GOOD! The sauce is a sweeter sauce, not like those thick, rich sauces.. Crust is thin and crispy.. They have a nice cheese combo on top of the pizza as well. Although it does tend to be on the greasier side, Its by far the best pizza I've had in a while.. Just dab it with a paper towel if u dont want all that grease.. Oh and their cheese fries were very good as well..

Anita H.

Yelp
I have been ordering from this business for years, however I will not be ordering from them ever again!! I called to place a delivery and explained about an offer that was listed on their website for a large, 3 topping pizza, and appetizer and a liter of pop for $15.50. As I told the women the order she said that she would have to charge me $22.00 and that wasn't even including the appetizer or liter of pop! As I reminded her that the offer was listed online that way she said they have raised their prices, and that she claimed that it mentions on their website that "prices are subject to change" as I was still on the phone with her I searched the entire website and nothing was mentioned about changing prices so I pointed out that the price online should be honored since it's false advertising. All she said was that "it's been a long night and she didn't want to argue with me" I couldn't believe how ignorant and rude she was. So then I asked to speak to the manager and she claimed that she was the manager!! With management and horrible customer service I'm very surprised this business is still even running! I also wanted to pay with my debit card and she couldn't accept it since she said she closed out her machine!! There's no reason for them to put an offer online if they can't honor it. I'd rather starve before giving this business another cent of my money!

Rosie C.

Yelp
Vince's has the absolute BEST Mexican pizza on the planet: ground beef, lettuce, tomatoe, onion, (I skip the jalpenos), and ceddar cheese (if I remember correctly). Anyhow, I have served it many times with friends over and they all remember it. It is that good! Service, well.........that's questionable. But I always do carry out, so still a thumbs up.

Nancy W.

Yelp
Great pizza, great deals and great prices. Staff is friendly and polite. Order is always ready on time, cooked the way I like and always correct. If I order for delivery they always over estimate the time so I am very happy when my order arrives 20 minutes earlier than expected.
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Steve L.

Yelp
Pretty good Pizza, but I like the Beef and Fries better

Jason G.

Yelp
Hey Vinces! You screwed up my order. When I called for it to be corrected you gave me a hard time and then put Laxatives in the sauce. The only thing worst then you buttholes...is my butthole.

Ren S.

Yelp
My new review: WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO HEAR IS REAL AND A TRUE EXPERIENCE. NOTHING WAS MADE UP. Why I came here: I have no idea. I was craving pizza and this is walking distance from my house.Though I seriously have no idea why I came here again... begining: When I went in the store and looked at the menu I notice the pizza were quite expensive. Anyways when I was about to order the guy I mentioned in my previous review jumped out and did a karate pose then started punching the air at my direction... I am not even joking about this.. . Then he asked "what do you want" and I ordered. 50 minutes latter I got my pizza. It was so not worth $13... It tasted like eating a cracker with cheese on it..Or maybe a frozen thin crust pizza that just been heated up.. I can sorta tell that the pizza was the frozen type because I used to work in food service and know the taste and tomato sauce. PREVIOUS REVIEW: Ok I take back my compliment. The service is very rude. I had to wait for 10 minutes for the cashier/chef to take my order. Then when he finally came out he pointed at me and said "I saw you at the park" which that creep said it in a unpleasant way. Almost like he was going to kill me or something. Anyways the chef/cashier said my food will come in 10 minutes. Then he didn't make it.... I was the only one there... So I waited another 10 minutes. The food still hasn't been given yet... So I was there for 30 minutes. Btw I should have mention this first. the food is made behind closed doors.... Anyways when I finally got my food he had a grin on his face like he tampered with the food. he laughed as he went back. this guy looks like some sort of gangster because he has some interesting tattoos. Anyways I was suspicious of the food because there is no one monitoring the chef and I am almost certain he did something to the food. So I threw the food away. The experience was very unpleasant and I recommend that no one go here. also the customer should not feel like the chef tampered with the food!

Paula A.

Yelp
Love their special Vince's pizza !! This is where I am going from now on for thin crust pizza! Beats Lou's in my opinion!