Butcher & Brew

I'm with the other reviewers who gave low ratings. Last time we had been here was over a year ago and we loved it. We decided to go back in for old times sake, and oh my God, it's just horrible. The food is lackluster, the menu sounding great when you read it, but when you eat it, it's a different story. I mean, something simple like Mac and cheese should be just ooey gooey deliciousness, it's hard to mess up and they messed it up. The coleslaw just lacked flavor it was just basically cabbage. My pastrami Sandwich was just greasy and over buttery and just a mess in terms of fat. The app pigs in a blanket were over battered and greasy. The servers were great. We sat at the bar. Great guy, so the service is there. The atmospheres there, the food is Meh.

Stopped in during a hot day to quench thirst! Solid choice of local brews on draft (any hop head would appreciate), cocktails and wine list. Menu was smaller, but reflected some unique choices to compliment the focus on beverages. My only knock: wait staff shut kitchen down early on a Sunday evening with small number of patrons finishing dinner. All good as any reasonable customer would understand the cost complexity to manage the establishment. Conclusion: liked this place with it's bar / menu choices. Well worth a stop while walking through downtown Alpharetta!!

Love the ambiance! Decorations, service was good, however I am spending 2023 going on a wing taste testing tour! This was the first stop..positive part they cooked them fried hard exactly how I like them! FLAVOR: None!!!! Very bland for my taste buds.

Enjoyed our experience on a Saturday evening. It was too busy inside we chose the outside patio so we could talk but overall it was very lively. Food was good too, we ordered a Game Over which was tasty but there were way too many low quality fries that we ordered as side most of it went to trash. Don’t go with fries on the side or at least one of you order it due to its abundance! Oh and the free appetizer popcorns were awesome too.

Very popular place right in downtown Alpharetta. We had to wait a little bit to sit so we had a drink at the bar. We got seated outside which was great! And the service was really good, even with the crowd. The food is amazing and they have something for everyone on their beer menu. Love the Butcher & Brew!

Our waitress was very pleasant and they even turned on the overhead lamps outside when they saw that we were slightly cold. hey served free popcorn that was much too salty, but still tasty if you brush off the salt a bit. The mac & cheese wasn't too good because the cheese seemed more like alfredo sauce. The spicy mango wings were gross in my opinion; BEWARE! We settled for the truffle parmesan fries, which were JUST okay. (For the amount of toppings, thicker fries would make more sense.) The burger was great! The best part of our experience was the service, although a bit slow. They were pleasant. We may try them again one day.

The location, beers, and food are SO good. The beers alternate often which makes it really fun and exciting and allows you to try new things. You literally can't beat their popcorn. I highly recommend the paleo bowl and the burger personally, but everyone I've brought here has always loved everything they have gotten as well. The staff is always friendly and the overall aesthetic within the restaurant is really nice. Highly recommend.

Second restuant of S Main Kitchen Great craft food and beers with over 16 taps! I had the Brunch with the house chips. Delicious! Great servers with an very knowledgeable bar manager and great rum collection.

There is a small parking lot and a parking garage. There's a nice gathering/play area for children in front of the restaurant. Our waitress was very friendly. We were seated in a booth with a view to the outside. I had a burger, and my daughter had the fried chicken sandwich. We both liked our sandwiches. Don't bother with the "twice-baked potato." It's just mashed potatoes sitting on top of a baked potato boat. A little strange.

Finally, a gastro pub in Alpharetta with a great wine list and solid menu. It's amazing what a few changes can do to heighten the dining experience. The new comfortable chairs, great wines by the bottle and killer beers on tap will keep me coming back. I've now tried just about everything on the menu and have enjoyed it all. My last time visiting, Lexi (behind the bar) took great care of me. Haley is another bartender who is top notch and it's always an enjoyable visit when she is at the helm. Lastly, perhaps the most revealing piece about a joint is the cleanliness of the bathroom. The bathrooms here are always clean and tidy. Well done!

Always great service! Louis and team do a wonderful job! We had the big Italian with some yummy Hummus. Love this place!

Enjoyed the food here, and the service was very good (thanks, Ray). I had the Gustavo, which is a fried chicken sammie. Generous portion of chicken and perfectly fried, though my sandwich bread didn't seem fresh. I tried a taste of the family's orders, and their sammies were equally as good. We arrived after the lunch rush on a Saturday, but they were still getting a steady flow of business. Nonetheless, a quick post-rush dining area clean-up would have been nice. Otherwise, a very good experience!! Cheers! RS

I like the renovation and new menu items. The complaints were the prices for the type of place it was and it didn't justify it. Now, rebranding a gastropub makes sense. The salmon tartar is great and not the usual, doused in soy sauce variety. The steak frites and salmon dinner was good too. Seems like the servers are up on the new menu. Glad they kept the TV's for the sports and kept craft beers. I see the complaints about the change but, drive up to the other one which still has the older setup

What a great lunch spot! This is located in the downtown Alpharetta area amongst many different places to eat. This one, while not hidden, does not jump out at you either. It is easy to pass by... You have to be looking look for it. We had a group coming for a business lunch and I was the first to arrive. The location is not huge but has a nice feel to it. Almost an underground vibe. The bar area is good size while the seating area has room for several parties and they have a couple of tables out front, outside, for those wanting to brave the heat.. They quickly set up a section for us by the door, inside, and we were all set. This is a get an adult drink kind of place, they have their own beers and several mixologist type cocktails, but I don't drink anymore and it was a work lunch. So I could not speak to those. Their menu is filled with interesting possibilities! Bowls, salads, aps, and Sandwiches that promise a flavor adventure... and which do not disappoint. I had the RONIN: honey sriracha glazed fried chicken breast, merkin spice, toasted sesame seeds, mayo, sweet and sour quickles, with citrus slaw and an extra side if quickles. It was a thrill ride of flavors that took me across county over the mountains down into the valley, across rivers and dropped me in the heart of Flavor Town! All aboard!! What a flavor train this meal was! OUTSTANDING to be sure! The fries were great as well, thin crispy outsides that snapped to attention when bit! Our service was top notch especially since we were a group of 10. They got it all right and took care of us like we were the wanted side of the family... not the cousin Edie side. I can't wait to come back here again!! There were so many other things I wanted to try! This is a must stop for those who enjoy more then just the mundane everyday blah food options. Get on the Flavor train and take a ride with Butcher and Brew!

One of the best burgers I've ever had, came loaded with hand-cut fries and a pickle for about 15 bucks. Nice crowd, nice bartender! I watched a couple NFL playoff games while sitting at the bar for about 90 minutes and it was completely enjoyable. I think there are 2 large flat screens and viewable by everyone in the place. But to be clear, this is not a sports bar, just a solid restaurant and a friendly upscale bar.

Where has B&B gone? From the moment we walked up to the hostess stand, to the end of the evening where the waitress handed me a bill with an automatic tip, it was NOT the experience we were used to having. The B&B burger was still really good, but where did the fries go? Are you kidding me? The new fries are not good, and few and far between. Open tables everywhere, people standing in line out the door, and it still took 10 minutes to get seated. Party of 5. The folks behind us were puzzled as well. Maybe it is the fact that they have a reservations now. I was so disappointed versus the past 4 plus years we have been enjoying our dinner and drinks at B&B. It was always our "go to", but do not plan on returning. I never leave reviews, but I was so bothered by my experience, I am compelled to leave this review.

Food was not bad, and there were a few solid beer options. But the new menu is very, very overpriced, and the portions are ridiculously stingy. As of a few weeks ago, every sandwich is now $15-$18, with no fries included. Ok, $6 extra for fries is a lot, but I'll add them because I'm hungry. The $6 cup of fries was TINY--like 8 individual fries in there. I asked if the chicken sandwich ($15 by itself) came with pickles, our server said yes, but when it comes out, there are two of the world's tiniest pickles sitting next to this sandwich. That and the fries made it feel like I was getting pranked. Service at lunch was slow, but our server seemed to be doing his best, and was accommodating. I will not be returning and I will not recommend due to the astronomical prices for ungenerous portions.

Food taste wonderful but small portions and entree meals are super pricey. The alcohol drinks taste great, again the smallest glasses. In between a shot glass and drinking glass. Our meal for 2 adults and 2 children with 2 alcoholic drinks was $200 dollars. While everything tasted great, my opinion the value isn't there when the portions are too small on the plate and drinks.

Nice place to get a burger or sandwich ... they start with this popcorn with a hint of vinegar, garlic, and salt nice bite and I hate vinegar ... I had a bacon burger it was the best burger I had all year ... the bacon was tender the beef wasn't overly cooked or tough ... I'd recommend the chips over the fries to be different but get place ...

The new menu is delicious! Everything we had was really good. Some of our favorites were the salmon tartar and ricotta dumpling apps, so good! They had some really good new wines on their wine list as well. Our server was really friendly and made some nice suggestions. We also really liked the new chairs and lamps on the tables, they made it feel warm and inviting inside. Looking forward to going back to try more of the new items.

If you haven't tried the new menu, you need to! We had the fried bread and ricotta mushroom gnocchi appetizers - get them both. You wont regret it. Our meals included the crispy fried fish, cornflake sesame chicken tenders, bacon cheeseburger and the kids tenders for dinner. The fried fish comes with an amazing side of crispy potatoes and asparagus. The only thing I regret is not having more space in my belly to finish it all. There aren't many restaurants that I consider revisiting within the same week but we made plans to go back with friends as we were walking out. Our server was friendly and knowledgeable on the new food items. She was quick to refill our drinks and even helped pack up our leftovers. A wonderful night at B&B, we can't wait to be back!

Very nice sports bar in Alpharetta. The sanwiches are tasty, with also apetizers, salads and bowls, and there is plenty of beers to choose from.

My fiancé's family is in Alpharetta and whenever we visit we somehow end up at Butcher and Brew. Located in the heart of downtown, it really has something for everyone. There is both indoor and outdoor seating with a huge bar area and ample televisions. The meal starts with house popcorn that has a crazy good seasoning in addition to a great beer menu. For our meal today we got the Asian bowl, add chicken and ronin sandwich. Everything was so good. We've tried most the menu and you really can't go wrong with any of the items. Some of our favorites include the Caesar salad, burger, turkey sammie and pigs in a blanket. Highly recommend this stop when looking for a great meal at a great price point.

It's fun. In an area with lots of options it's a low key cool little place. The food is serious and well prepared. The staff are good natured and will take care of you if you show the same good nature. Craft beers on draft to fit any taste. I'll be back when in Alpharetta!

I came here for lunch on a weekday with a friend and was underwhelmed by the flavors. The service was great though, my friend has a lot of dietary restrictions and the servers and chef was good about adapting the Paleo bowl to her diet. They checked in with us several times to make sure her order would be right. Our server was good about checking in overall and brought us complimentary popcorn as we waited. For an appetizer we got the fried cauliflower. It was more greasy than crispy, it doesn't seem like they coat it in a batter so I think they just put cauliflower straight into the fryer. It was served with stale pork rinds and topped with chili. The sauce on the side was a ginger chili aioli; this didn't pair well with the cauliflower so I think this dish would benefit from a lighter sauce with some more acidity. For our entrees, I got the B&B burger while my friend got the paleo bowl. My friend enjoyed her paleo bowl and my B&B burger was okay. The B&B burger is a very standard burger with 2 patties, American cheese, grilled onions, lettuce, and mustard. There was a lot of mustard on my burger and while I'm not opposed to ketchup and mustard, it was way too much mustard. The fries that came with the burger were really good though. I have to commend them for their big portions because I definitely had enough to take home. The prices are fair for the portions but I think this place just lacks flavor. I think Butcher & Brew probably thrives more in the evening having mostly bar food paired with drinks. The drink menu is extensive filled with most beers on draft.

Please bring back the old menu. We miss the bowls, wings and great beer choices. Loved the old choices... not a fan of new menu.

Hate the new menu! The higher prices along with the higher end food was such a disappointment. We had the pasta, club sandwich and salmon. They were all just ok. The bacon on the club was super thick and fatty and not crispy at all. Certainly not worth the price! Popcorn was also not brought out. The greek bowl and asian bowl were two of my favorite meals and they are both gone. We loved the more casual menu and my family ate at B&B evey week. Unfortunately with the change to the menu and higer prices, we won't be back.

Not a fan of the new menu, feels like a brand change. I ordered wings, were not fresh at all and tasted as if they had been frozen. Prices have gone up and quality has gone down.

Butcher Alpharetta used to be a go to spot for me. It's gone downhill the past few years. The service at the bar is between slow and non existent. I go wanting food and leave after a beer because nobody took my order. They have no healthy sides, so I asked for a side salad as the side. $5 upcharge and I was told "sorry it is downtown Alpharetta pricing." I did not know the city made the prices. My friends won't go because the beers can be $8 for 8 ounces. Food quality is on point. 4.5 stars Service 2 stars Beer and food pricing 1 star

Dog friendly patio. Tasty selection of bowls, sandwiches and burgers. Nice vibe with a open doors front to Alpharetta Main Street and nice out door seating. Food is well prepared and service is prompt and friendly

Good place but had to ask to be served... food was good. Truffle fries were outstanding

The reason I give this a 3 and not a 4 was due to price vs quality of what I ate. The food was decent overall however. The fries were very good, burger was a little dry but packed with mustard. I feel if they could have went easier on the mustard a solid pickle would have been enough to cut through the cheese and fattiness of the burger. Finally, the onion rings were subpar. They used the big ends of the onion, the batter fell off immediately, and they were lacking flavor. A little salt tossed on them after frying would have gone a long way. Good drink menu and wonderful staff.

We stopped by for dinner on the cold Martin Luther King evening. Everyone was friendly and helpful. My only complaint was that the beer prices were too high. $6 and up for only a 12 oz pour. The food was decent. Started with the truffle cheese fries. They were fresh and tasty. Not greasy at all. I had the white chicken chili. Perfect for aa cold evening. It was OK. Not the best I have ever had. Hubby had the fried shrimp Po Boy type of sandwich. I don't remember their name for it. It was tasty. The Mac and Cheese was awesome !!!! Definitely go for thE Mac and cheese as your side. This little downtown area has several local eateries. We probably wouldn't come here again if we were in the area. But we are glad we tried it.

I am so disappointed in the new menu; what's sold as an upscale new dining experience is just another restaurant with bar food, fried chicken tenders, and basic sandwiches. You can get that anywhere. To boot, it's more expensive now with smaller portions. This menu is lame and boring. I loved the bowls they used to have which they have removed from the menu too. I am skeptical of the new 5-star reviews because all that's happened is higher prices for mediocre food. Service is always good and that hasn't changed but overall, probably won't go back.

Butcher and Brew gets D-grade for new menu - since we moved here 7 years ago, Butcher & Brew (downtown Alpharetta) had been one of our favorites. It was our top "take out" option during Covid and a great place to drop in just for drinks, appetizers or their great craft brew menu. But that's all over. We dropped in Friday night for drinks at the bar and to place a to-go order. The menu had completely changed. No more bowls. No more Gustavo chicken sandwich (my fave). No more of their world famous white bean soup. The menu was full of higher priced items in their effort to offer a more sophisticated fare. It was early evening (5:30ish) so B&B wasn't too crowded yet, but it still took nearly 40 minutes to get our food. While we waited, we asked (twice) for their famous popcorn. Instead of the generous tray they used to provide, it came in a small metal cup (about a third of what they used to offer). And on the drinks board above the bar, the new staff (our favorite "big guy" bartender who'd been there for years was not there - hope he was just off that night), said that the board was now comprised of first five choices top mixed drinks, last five choices for beers that would always be available (from the big beer makers) while those in between were their own creations, down 10 from their previous lineup. The bill ended up being about 40% higher than we normally pay, and the food was not exceptional by any means. My wife had specified to hold the peppers/heat on her mussels (yes, they now serve mussels) which they did not do, so she could not eat them after we got home. All in all, we're probably done with our former downtown Alpharetta hang out.

Butcher and Brew is one of the best places to eat in downtown Alpharetta. The bowls are really good. The sweet potato is cooked perfectly.They have a popcorn machine which I find very charming. They always have sports on their tvs, so it gets crowded when there's a big game.

Excellent food and service! Every item we had was excellent. Great burger and best fries in town. It's a bit pricey, even by current menu standards, but everything was top quality.

Yummy food. The pastrami sandwich is so juicy and the meat is so flavorful! We're in from So Cal visiting. Alpharetta is such a quaint town. Watching the TCU game. Go Max Duggan!!

Very solid. Love the popcorn at the table. Had the B&B burger and fries. They were both very good, PLENTY of fries with the burger. I would highly recommend. My lunch partner had the same burger but with a gluten free bun and his was very good as well. Place is quaint, A/C was blowing nice and cold on a scorching day. Beer selection looked awesome. Staff was very friendly and quick. I'll be back for sure!!!

A month ago I would have rated this place 5/5. Today I can't even give it one star. Walked in last night for dinner expecting (and excited) to order my favorite fried chicken sandwich, enjoy some popcorn and maybe a few fries. To my surprise I was met with an entirely new menu at an entirely new and absurd price point. Alpharetta with truly miss it's casual yet delicious dining experience at Butcher & Brew. Guess I'll be eating at The Standard or Jekyll from now on...

Blake and Hayley are THE best bartenders in Alpharetta!!!!! And keep #3 flowing! Janet

Butcher and Brew was amazing!!! The new menu is off the charts! My mouth is watering thinking about the horseradish crusted salmon!!! The service was amazing and the atmosphere is vibrant and fun!! We will definitely be back!

The new menu is a huge disappointment! They got rid of all the great items. Service was extremely slow. Place is empty. Food was cold and EXTREMELY OVERPRICED! $18 sandwich served with two tiny gerkin pickles. If you would like fries with that plan to add $6. WILL NOT BE BACK!!!

Good spot for a quick bite but it's not my first choice. My friend and I liked they they had patio seating so we sat outside enjoying the weather. Shortly after, our waitress approached and she was very cordial. I had the underwood sandwich with fries and my friend had the pigs in a blanket. The sausage in the pigs in a blanket seemed low quality and the fries were lackluster, shoe string style fries. My sandwich, however, was very tasty and flavorful. They didn't bring out the popcorn as they usually do and they were out of mac n' cheese. Overall, a good option but nothing craveworthy.

Butcher & Brew definitely impressed me. It's in downtown alpharetta, walking distance from all the other yummy places. We went there for dinner after some drinks across the street from Holmes. The Wood and Wire festival was going on so we were expecting them to be packed. The restaurant seemed full and looked very busy but we got a table right away. Our waitress greeted us quickly with a complimentary basket of DELICIOUSSSS POPCORN. (Honestly some of the best popcorn I've ever had). Their beer menu was really organized and had a wide variety of beers. I was in between two choices and the waitress recommended my second choice the Three Tavern Rowdy and Proud. I'm glad she did because it was a tasty beer. My girlfriend ordered a glass of champagne which was brought to us right away along with the beer. We went there knowing we were both going to try their B&B burger so we ordered right away. My girlfriend chose a side of coleslaw with her burger and I ordered extra crispy fries as mine. (also added bacon to the burger per usual ). Just like the drinks the food came out in a timely manner. I LOVE burgers and am always looking for a great burger to impress me, I will have to admit their B&B burger was FANTASTIC. It was so heavenly great!. The only downside to my meal was the fries were room temp if not cooler. The super satisfying burger made up for that though. If you're looking for a good place in DT alpharetta with a not so expensive menu with yummy food and drinks this is the place to go. It's like upscale bar food. it has a bar like feel to it but is clean and not super loud.

The new menu is top-notch! The Fried Bread (our Server recommended), Onion Rings and Chicken Pasta were all so unique and flavorful. The BB burger is a menu holdover (best in Alpharetta!) and they still have the rotating beer selection, TVs and fun vibe. It's the go-to spot in downtown Alpharetta.

Everything was top notch! Service, cocktails, food! This place is clean and nice! The playlist from Blake the bartender took me back! (90's jams) unfortunately, we don't live in the area and this was a stop off on our way home to East ATL. Definitely will return next time we're in the area. Locals in Alpharetta should frequent this place! We had the fried cauliflower ( extra points for fresh chicharonnes mixed in) pigs in a blanket with the grain mustard, and the tomato bisque with rye croutons! All so delicious! Do not pass this place up!!'

The food was ... adequate although in many areas it was lacking and expensive for what you got. Truffle fries? Delicious. Ancient Grains Salad bowl with grilled chicken did not have all the ingredients that were listed on the menu. Again -- just so-so. I was taken aback by the server's response when I asked that a soft boiled egg be hard boiled. Oh, she said, they can't do it because all the food has to be the same temperature. What a load of ancient grains! Will not return nor will I recommend to anyone else. The service was fair. Our server did not come back to our table after dropping off the food so I was unable to tell her about the missing salad ingredients. If you're looking for good food, keep looking. If you're looking for tasty and expensive French fries and beer, this may be your place.

Dear Loui, I absolutely love your place!! 5 stars all day, every day and twice on Sundays. The food is great and plays well with your rotating draft list. The ambiance is so unique, nothing else like it with decor, music and TVs and provides for a great vibe. And all of that is topped by your outstanding service staff. Always so professional and friendly. The only nit that I have to pick, is that I recently noticed that the music playlists are no longer chosen by the staff. I found it disappointing as it was a really great concept that brought out the staff's personality and generated good conversation, with both the staff and fellow patrons. Thanks so much for BnB. -Dan

Wow. I had high hopes. We were looking for a good tavern. B&B has been in Alpharetta long before the F&B explosion. But, they need a reboot. BAD. The food was between awful and meh. The wings were shameful. The Nopsy sandwich was so over cooked it was hard and made a THUD when I tapped it. The flavor was equally bad. The slaw was dry. The fries were rubbery. Can we talk about the carrots with the wings? They were also rubbery and tasted like detergent (I had to spit them into my napkin. My husband liked the beer. That's the only reason the got 3 stars. The wine was SO bad. They need a menu (drink and food) reboot. #stayaway.

Great first time experience. We'll be back! Kids loved their chicken tenders and fries. The chicken sandwich and salmon sandwich were delicious. Neat atmosphere, awesome service.

We were looking for a quick dinner in downtown Alpharetta and Butcher & Brew had a lot of seating both indoors and outside on the sidewalk. We were quickly seated and they had an extensive draft beer selection (our waitress was super helpful with recommendations)! I had a Photonic Hazy IPA, my dad had a Wicked Weed Pernicious and my mom had the Placa which was a really smooth tequila drink. I also loved that they bring out popcorn to munch on while you wait! For dinner, we all had sandwiches, the Aunt Bethany (a souped up turkey sandwich with a bacon-tomato-onion jam and garlic aioli!), the Ronin (an Asian inspired chicken sandwich), and the Game Over (a pork sandwich). All were super delicious!! For the sides, the fries were shoestring and the chips a little salty, but the white cheddar Mac n cheese was delicious!! Overall, good vibes and really delicious, quick pub food in downtown Alpharetta.

This is a nice little spot in downtown Alpharetta with outdoor seating. We came here on date night and ordered the B&B burger with Mac & Cheese, and the Nopsi with fries. Loved that they gave complimentary popcorn with your water before the meals came out! I didn't really like the popcorn myself but still it was a very nice snack! My Nopsi sandwich was basically their version of shrimp po boy and you could choose either fried or grilled shrimp. I got the fried shrimp and fries as the side. The fries were bomb!! It was so good! The seasoning in it was just perfect. The entire meal was ginormous. I was only able to eat half the sandwich and had tons of leftovers. The Nopsi was also great - came with lots of shrimp, coleslaw mix, even avocado, and their yummy sauce. Would definitely get this again! My bf got the B&B burger and Mac & cheese. He didn't like the side at all and ate all of my fries instead. Didn't get to take a pic of his meal... His burger looked real tasty and filling though! I will probably try the burger next time since I heard great things about it.

the worst bartender crew ever. Not the first time, but over the last year they've gotten worse. Ignore you and talk back to customers. I will never go to the Halcyon location again. And, they had the nerve to say the ownership doesnt care.

Butcher & Brew is a hit or a miss when it comes to the food (many times the protein amount is very small/not worth price, need better side options, and the mac n cheese is not mac n cheese) But recently got the Gustavo and it was amazing!!! Definitely worth going back for and I know what I get from now on. So yummy!!!

I ordered the B&B burger and it was not good. The meat tasted like it came from a frozen box. Plus I hate when burger places don't have ketchup ,but they do have mustard?? It came with mac witch was pretty good. $17 for everything .

We had the absolute best server ever! First of all, I love a place that is dog friendly, so bring your puppers. We had 3 different types of sandwiches and 3 different drinks, everything was amazing. Oh and by the way, had the pigs in a blanket and they were delish. The sporty spritzer was a delicious drink and went well with the Aunt Bethany sandwich. The ambiance was perfect, this is in an awesome part of town. I was with 2 humans and a dog on this trip. The service was fast and efficient. I couldn't have asked for a better night. Thank you so much for taking care of us :). If you're visiting Alpharetta for any reason, stop here.