Shin Toe Bul Yi

They have hours to serve Lunch and Dinner. This place will be my go to restaurant for Korean authentic! Went there for dinner they open at 6-9pm. The chicken is perfectly cooked, crunchy and moist inside! Went used Muni L-traval(recommended) If you are using car then it’s only street parking.

I came here excited to try a few dishes, but overall the food fell short for me. We ordered the fried chicken, which looked great coming out, but the meat was on the dry side. I usually enjoy non-sauced fried chicken, but in this case, it felt like it could have really used some sauce to balance things out. The soup was nothing special—it lacked the depth and richness I expect from a good Korean stew. It ended up tasting pretty one-note. The japchae was decent in flavor, but for the portion size and what it is, it felt a bit overpriced. Service was fine, but food-wise, nothing really stood out enough to make me want to come back soon.

I haven’t been coming here since the pandemic started. I’ve been wanting to dine in here but each time I wanted to stop by there was always line. But I know that’s a good sign; the food must be good! Today I called minutes after it opens 😄 and ordered takeout; lunch special mackerel and seafood pancake. Picked them up, got home and right away I just munched on them. Oh my words…everything is so delicious!! The service is great. Generous portion. The young lady on the phone was very friendly. I think I’d be a regular here and will dine in Friday or Saturday since I live only few blocks down. The portion is great. I enjoy every bite. Thanks so much!!

They’re now open for dine-in service on Fridays and Saturdays! This modest, family-run gem sits right beside the Taraval line. The mother and father lovingly prepare each dish in the kitchen, while their daughter handles the front of the house, ensuring that customers feel right at home. I’ve tried Han Il Kwan, Manna, Toyose, and The Crew, but this spot still wins me over every time. Although they’re celebrated for their fried chicken, I can’t get enough of their pollack roe soup, soon tofu soup, and kal-bi!

Food came out hot. Tea came out lukewarm. Excellent customer service. Dishes are clean. Clean bathroom. Came here for dinner on a Saturday night at 8pm and place was empty. Music is loud. Was seated quickly. 20 years ago, this restaurant used to be so crowded that the wait time was at least 45 mins.

Hidden gem! — Came here for dinner at 5:30pm on a Saturday, no wait! People started rolling in around 6:30pm. Even though they were busy with takeout orders, I never felt rushed. I came here with my elderly aunt and the waitress kindly + patiently answered my many questions (to make sure the food was not spicy for my aunt). Ordered: Kimchi stew & tofu stew, each entree came with a bowl of rice. Kimchi stew was flavorful and I personally like adding a dash of vinegar (which the restaurant happily provided) to make it more sour. Asked for three refills of side dishes because we were a big fan of the potato salad and kimchi! Even though it was a small space, it felt cozy instead of cramp. I imagine it could get loud since I was able to overhear some of the conversations across the room. Overall could eat here again.

This restaurant makes delicious fried chicken and nice complimentary side dishes... plus their grilled mackerel and the soft tofu soup. Also the stir fried squid is delicious. I will like to go back for the same dishes and others.

They were only serving takeout when we visited. The staff was very nice and welcoming. Only about a 20 minute wait, and the food was awesome. Great flavor and big portions. Very generous with everything, even the sides. I really appreciated the decent portion of veggie sides, and they gave an extra quart of kimchi. My boyfriend had a huge appetite, but could not even finish the chicken. 2 meals for $30, but definitely feeds up to 4.

This Korean Restaurant has been here for years! We tried this restaurant probably 20 years ago before the Yelp days. We decided to try it again and we were not disappointed. When we walked in we were told no inside dining except on Friday & Saturday. We decided to go ahead and order to go and luckily wait was not too bad. We ordered the Korean Fried Chicken and Spicy Tofu Soup. The fried chicken was a big order and nice that they pack it in a large box and leave the top open so the chicken stays crunchy on the drive home. Chicken was very good portion, lots of crunch, but few of the pieces were a bit dry. The soup was just the right spicy, lots and lots of tofu and broth was delicious. The banchan was nicely packed for to go in a divided to go container. The service was friendly and although no dine in the place looked very clean inside. We will be back to try their other dishes.

This was a last-minute family dinner! We arrived on a Saturday night around 5:45 PM and were immediately seated, which was great. We ordered a variety of dishes: the Japchae, Dumpling and Rice Soup, Pork and Potato Stew, Calamari and Noodles, Calamari and Rice Cake, Seafood Pancake, and Korean Fried Chicken. Honestly, the Seafood Pancake was the only dish I truly enjoyed; it was delicious. Unfortunately, the rest of the meal was just mediocre for our table. Japchae: Considering the price point, I was hoping for a more substantial amount of meat, and the flavor profile felt quite underdeveloped. Pork and Potato Stew: This dish had more of a soupy texture rather than the rich stew consistency I expected. The pork broth flavor was difficult to discern, tasting primarily salty with a spicy kick. Dumpling and Rice Soup and the Calamari dishes were perfectly fine but unremarkable. Korean Fried Chicken: I was excited to try this, but some pieces were unfortunately a bit dry. While I understand it's hard to compare to the KFC I've enjoyed in Korea, I was hoping for a juicier and more flavorful experience overall. In conclusion, it was a really underwhelming experience for me. Given the cost, I sincerely expected a higher quality and execution from the dishes. I appreciate the quick seating, but I hope to see improvements in the flavor and value of the main courses in the future.

I came here excited to try a few dishes, but overall the food fell short for me. We ordered the fried chicken, which looked great coming out, but the meat was on the dry side. I usually enjoy non-sauced fried chicken, but in this case, it felt like it could have really used some sauce to balance things out. The soup was nothing special--it lacked the depth and richness I expect from a good Korean stew. It ended up tasting pretty one-note. The japchae was decent in flavor, but for the portion size and what it is, it felt a bit overpriced. Service was fine, but food-wise, nothing really stood out enough to make me want to come back soon.

Its nice change to our regular Asian food, great service, everything is fresh & this place has a home feel to it. Best tofu soup & all dishes we tried where very good. Chicken is very good came out hot &fresh. Bibimbap was very fresh nice assortment of veggies.

Easy neighborhood parking with limited dine in schedule. It's mostly a take out place. On a hard rain Friday night, the restaurant had less than half their tables filled. If you like Kpop, you'll like their music. My fried chicken obsessed friend loved the (sauceless) chicken. It was a huge platter and we ended up taking most of it home. I like jokbal, but somehow it didn't hit the spot. The small portion was ginormous. The highlights of the evening were the mackerel and the seafood jiggae. I would most definitely go back for those.

Have been going here for years and happy they reopened for indoor dining! My favorites and must orders: Seafood pancake Fried chicken is absolutely divine. Perfectly crispy and delicious each and every time. ABSOLUTE favorite. Bibimbap, chicken stew is standard. Love the banchan as well! Hole in the walk and traditional environment.

This is my first time trying this place and it was pretty solid! For 2 people, we shared their seafood tofu soup and the fried chicken. The broth in the seafood tofu soup was SO FLAVORFUL, I thoroughly enjoyed it! The fried chicken came with many pieces; definitely a dish you can share between 3-4 people. The chicken was juicy and fried to perfection! Service was quick and friendly. Ambiance is very casual and a decent amount of tables to dine in. I'd recommend trying this Korean spot out if you're in the area.

I've been coming here for years. Always an excellent place to visit. The only downside is the hours of business, during lunch, only take out! Check out the hours for dinner, I always get it wrong! Everything I've tried has been great. If you enjoy Korean cuisine this is a great place to start. The fried chicken is to die for!!! Fair sized portions. A must try is the spicy calamari. Some of the best kimchi I've ever tasted! I always ask for extra!!! Well worth the effort. Parking can be inconvenient, but you can walk off the dinner after a wonderful meal. A pleasant experience for all who love Korean cuisine

Joanne always got our orders perfect and go extra miles They are now open for dine in on Friday and Saturday night, yay love to have soup on site

Love this family owned restaurant. My go to Korean restaurant. They are so friendly and generous in their portion on top of being quality Korean food. When I think of a good home cooked Korean meal I think of this place. Their banchan, main dish and a tofu soup is enough for about 5 people! They are also known for their Korean fried chicken. So much chicken and so much crunch!!!! Highly recommend if you're looking for a good Korean fried chicken. We also usually order their seafood pancake which is always delicious. Tofu soup again hits the spot!!! I can promise you, you can't go wrong with anything you order from here. I do think they're open on limited days(weekends) but mostly to go orders. I would call ahead to see if they're open.

Homestyle Korean at its best. Family-run establishment has been around for a couple of decades and still keeping it real. Great lunch specials and of course, the fried chicken.

Liked their yukgaejang. Their Korean fried chicken had a light, crispy batter and was pretty good. Generous portion too that could easily feed 2-3 people. Didn't love their green onion pancake or galbi though. Meat was too fatty and not great quality.

Got takeout and really was surprised at how delicious every item is!! The soft seafood tofu was flavorful and had good amount of ingredients!! Will definitely be back!

When I'm craving Korean Fried Chicken and Seafood pancake, this is where I come. Nice staff too.

This is the Korean fried chicken I assume they're eating in the K-dramas. LOL. Tender, crispy and airy. I have not had chicken like this elsewhere.

Our go-to Korean spot in the outer sunset/parkside. Great Korean fried chicken, seafood pancake and amazing pancake sauce. We also get the seafood tofu stew (soondoobu).

So happy to see Shin Toe open for dine in since the pandemic. Family owned and operated. Have lived in the neighborhood for decades and this is our Korean restaurant. Soups and fried chicken are a most have!

Decent spot for Korean food. What they're known for is their fried chicken but I haven't tried that yet. I was really craving tofu soup and saw that they had a kimchi stew so I ordered that! It came out less than 15 mins with banchan and a box of rice. The banchan was great and the fish cake is really good, better than most I've had (and better than H-Mart in my opinion because it's a little spicy!). The kimchi stew was good, lots of kimchi and boiling hot!! Plenty of pork pieces too but the tofu was firm. I think I may have ordered the wrong soup. Next time I'll go for the soft tofu soup and ditch the kimchi. Anyway this was a nice family run restaurant on the corner of Taraval. They have a lunch menu and it seems like a steal for less than $20. There's currently construction being done but hopefully it ends soon. It's all takeout right now only. Waiting patiently for them to open in person so I can dine in!

Just finished some delicious food from here. Had a seafood pancake and chicken soup (dak bokkeum tang). The pancake was lovely- since all food orders are to-go now, unfortunately it was not crisp but understandable being in a to-go container. The banchan was excellent and fresh- great kimchi!

Love this place. I used to come here a lot when i was younger. Decided to come back during covid. Only doing takeout and will continue to do so till the end of the year. The fried chicken is great! Was still full of flavor and crunchy even during the 25 min drive home. Also ordered the gamjatang jeongol, i forgot what size we ordered but it was a hefty portion (good for me because i eat a lot) super tasty and the pork bones were super tender. And lastly ordered the jokbal. Came with (Ssam) peppers, garlics, and lettuce to wrap it all up. Definitely will come back to order more takeout, still tastes as good as ever!

Good food, great price for take-out lunch. Bulgoki and ribs were tasty. Saved me the trip to drive to San Jose. Recommend this place.

Got takeout on a Saturday night. Called in around 5:45pm and was given a 6:10pm estimate. Got the yangnyeom tongdak, jokbal, haemul pajeon, tteokbokki, and soondubu. The fried chicken's flavoring was solid, a bit dry though. There wasn't any house special sauce that was given. Pickled radishes were good. Jokbal was tender, and it tasted great. They gave a lot of lettuce and condiments for the lettuce wrap. For the fermented paste, a little goes a long way because it was really salty. Haemul pajeon had a good amount of seafood. Sauce was on the vinegary side. Wish the exterior was a bit more crispy. Tteokbokki was on the sweeter side. I loved the fish cake, and it was nice that there were noodles in it. Could have been a bit more spicy. There was a lot of tofu in the soondubu. The portion was big. It was okay, pretty standard. A good amount of banchan was given. Loved the bean sprouts and pickled cucumber. Fish cakes were a bit on the softer side which threw me off. Kimchi was a bit salty. Portions are big, prices are good. I would come back to try their other dishes, but definitely for the jokbal.

Great food friendly staff. Really crispy fried chicken in good portions. Definitely coming back!

Great service. Delicious crispy wings. All they need is a bomb sauce to dip it in! Lunch mackerel was delicious! The fish was tilted so the oil can drop off AND there was parchment paper sepapating the fish and rice. What attention to detail. Wish there was more banchan. Will definitely come back!

They are opening for dinner on Friday and Saturday now. Love it my family and friends

This was a nice unexpected find when I found myself randomly traveling on the M line looking to get some steps in the Sunset. I didn't have any place in mind to grab some dinner, but I walked by and noticed this low-key Korean restaurant. It appeared to be a big draw for young Asian families who clearly loved the KFC served here. It looked awfully good, but I've given up fried chicken as an indulgence I just couldn't afford calorie-wise, especially as I was without Jamie W. that evening. I believe my server was the owner, and she was both kind and industrious. She started me with their complimentary Banchan, just a quartet of classic bites including kimchee, cucumbers in vinegar, bean sprouts, and my personal favorite, spicy fish cakes (photo: http://bit.ly/2TGY15J). I devoured it quickly, and she replenished it without provocation. Then another pleasant surprise occurred. She served me a free crock of Spicy Tofu Soup (Soondobu Jigae) which was a warm treat on a brisk evening with the tofu quite velvety (photo: http://bit.ly/2IpMSRm). My main dish was the $12.99 Sautéed Chicken Gizzards and Vegetables in Spicy Sauce (Dakddongjip Bokeum) because frankly I love my innards. When I ordered it, she forewarned me with furrowed brow that it was quite chewy at which I responded with an unforced smile, "Good!" The gizzards arrived on a sizzling iron platter mixed in a mildly spicy sauce with carrots, zucchini, peppers, and onion (photo: http://bit.ly/39uyhjF). It was delicious comfort food of the first order, and yes, I did partake the bowl of white rice that came with it. How could I not? I'll be taking the M again. FOOD - 5 stars...first class Korean comfort food with unexpected extras AMBIANCE - 3.5 stars...pretty basic with tables a bit crowded SERVICE - 5 stars...she was stellar TOTAL - 5 stars...worth the trek to Parkside to get delicious Korean food RELATED - Looking for eats in the Sunset? Here's a collection of places I've tried and reviewed: http://bit.ly/2EI8eIJ

The food is good, Their fried chicken is very popular although personally I'm not a huge fan of Korean fried chicken. The dining area gets pretty smoky so you will end up smelling like KBBQ for a while. Service is excellent!

Still open during COVID and this place was great I ordered the bulgolgi lunch special, beef short rib lunch special and soft tofu soup. They give okay portions, I wish they gave more meat and had the option of choosing brown rice. They also give tons of Korean side dishes. I really liked the soft tofu soup and I highly recommend. Overall their food is really good, but just -1 star because I wish they had brown rice, slightly bigger servings and a little expensive But the soft tofu soup was a must get. I will come back to try more.

I was temporarily pescatarian and the roommate wanted Korean food. This led us to Shin Toe Bul Yi. We placed our delivery order via DoorDash on Monday, March 25th at 5:46pm. Our dinner arrived at 6:54pm. We live in Outer Richmond. 12. Cholmyun: Spicy, Noodles and vegetables with spicy sauce ($11.99) 17. Ddeok Mandu Guk: Tasty dumpling, rice cake and egg in beef broth ($11.99) 20. Kokgye Tang: Spicy, Crab and vegetables in spicy stew ($15.99) 42. Jogi Gui: Broiled yellow croaker ($14.99) 48. Nakji Bokkeum: Sautéed octopus and vegetables in spicy sauce ($13.99) I think the reason the roomie picked this place was because they have the crab soup. He knows I love soups and stews, but I guess most korean restaurants only serve the meat variety? The soup was good. And a huge amount. Definitely a lot of crab flavor as I think there was a whole crab in there. Though the crab itself was overcooked for me since it was cooking for so long in the soup. I adore broiled fish and these were good. The octopus was tasty as well. Though it leaked all over everything in our bag. I did find myself wishing it was packed another way. We also got modest variety of banchan: fish cake, kimchee, cucumber, bean sprouts, and I believe yellow pickled radish? Good option for korean delivery. Especially if you're craving that crab soup.

Really solid lunch boxes to get to-go. Also some good fried chicken. Nothing to really complain about esp if you just want something good and solid

Great option on Taraval! Friendly and busy with locals mostly! Good value and lots of banchan, plus they also serve you soft tofu soup. Nothing was very spicy but that's not a bad thing, everyone seemed to enjoy it. Almost every table ordered the fried chicken, Maybe next time I will try it. The bulgogi was tender and tasty, also the seafood pancake was a highlight, next time I will take the tip to order it extra crispy! I am looking forward to returning to try other things on the menu.

This is a great example of why you shouldn't judge books by their covers. You wouldn't expect much from their simple store front and interior, but there is so much more to see. This is a true mom and pop shop featuring a robust menu of korean favorites. We ordered a number of items including the fried chicken sauteed tripe/intestines, a pancake, kalbi and a soup. This place definitely doesn't have too many frills, but their serving sizes are large and their food is delicious. I just love finding local places like this that feed the neighborhood and judge me less while I stuff my face. I highly recommend giving this place a try.

Haven't been here for a few months and looks like some of the dishes went down hill; the fried chicken is still the one of the best and smells so good on the way home. Both the bbq dishes were quite dry and / overcooked. Also, missing the comp dishes when dining in. Hoping they will start dining in soon and will try more different dishes

This place deserves a short concise review, I don't need to describe too much on how great the fried chicken is. I love the fried chicken here. It's juicy, crunchy and flavorful. You have to order the fried chicken here. I've also tried the japchae and the seafood pancake, and it's decent. I don't like japchae in general because it can be either too oily or it taste bland, this place makes it just right. And the portions are reasonable.

Come here for the fried chicken. As others have stated, it is delicious. Not greasy and the coating is yummy. It is also a very large order, but that is not a bad thing! Unfortunately there was only one server working the entire restaurant of about 7-8 tables. Really felt bad for her because she was working so hard. They have a pretty good menu with all the korean staples. We also loved the seafood pancake as well as the tofu soup. Pretty good selection of bonchon as well. A few things to note: - Closed on Sundays - Parking is limited due to the residential neighborhood and limited parking on Taraval - Only take-out during lunch time - Come early if you don't want to wait. We didn't have to wait at all but we also went at 6 pm on a Monday. When we left, it was packed and there were people waiting

THE BEST KOREAN FRIED CHICKEN IN SF!!!!!! I grew up coming to this restaurant with my family for the occasional Korean food. Their bibimbap is yummy, but their pajeon (seafood pancake) and Korean fried chicken are the stars of the show! The seafood pancake is so large that you'll probably have leftovers and is served with a spicy, sour chili sauce that complements the crisp of the pancake so well. But oh man, you need to get the fried chicken here! It's $15/order and a super generous one at that. It comes out golden brown and you may not think much of it but just wait until you take your first bite! Each bite is juicy and so flavorful and is delicious dipped in the sauce They are doing takeout orders for pick up during the COVID era - support this amazing Korean restaurant and satisfy your KFC craving!

Not sure why they are only open for take out nowadays. Food is pretty good but wish I am not eating out of a box. Please reopen for dine in.

Excellent portions and sooo delicious - currently take-out only. I had the spicy beef tripe and intestine stir-fry and the soup version of the same - sooo tasty and there was so much fresh honeycomb tripe and intestine. Also had a huge order of beef bulgogi - very nice. All came w rice and there was even some to go banchan. Well-packed so nothing spilled. I see from another Yelper that the owners are finding it hard to have staff, so they are doing take-out only for that reason. I suggest trying to order directly from the restaurant so that they have a better chance at being profitable; I'm sure all the delivery apps take a huge cut. This is definitely a very good family-run restaurant worthy of our support.

The best KFC( korean fried chicken) you must order I always order 2 portions KFC Beef bulgogi,kalbi and soup tofu the best

Great fried chicken! Hadn't been there in a while and it's takeout only now. We arrived quarter of the opening time but I remembered it was so good that I waited and came back. I was not disappointed, the fried chicken is the best in the city.

Best Korean food in the city. Their seafood pancake and pork bulgogi never disappoints. I would order everyday if I could! Take out only.

I came here last week for dinner on a Saturday. We came around 6pm and were super lucky to be seated right away, the restaurant is small and doesn't seat many people. The menu has plenty of options but since my friends came frequently they ordered for us. We got an order of the famous fried chicken, an order of pork belly / sliced brisket, and an order of japchae. They serve complimentary soondubu!!!!! The fried chicken here, has a nice crispy non flaky breading. It is super tender inside and the portion was very large. The japchae was steaming hot and enjoyable as well. I wish they provided more banchan such as the rice paper. Super friendly and the waitresses dont speak much english. Soondubu tasted similar to the one i had in korea. Total was $100 including a bottle of soju and large bottle of beer!! Not bad for 4 ppl.

Ambience 4/5 As all the San Francisco parking is it pretty much sucks. Street parking with lots of driveway space. We were able to find a space 2 blocks up, so not too far on a mid weekday. The actual restaurant is very homey! Definitely a great place to go on a chilly bay area day. Service is very nice an

Coming back from Seoul I wanted Bimibap and was missing that complex flavor found in many places from airport restaurant to Seoul. When I saw the numerous favorites here, had to give it a try. Bibimap gere wasn't even close, bland flavorless and mediocre. Fried chicken wasn't like the Korean spicy chicken found in Seoul. Just lots of batter without meat. Was thoroughly disappointed as I love small mom and pop places like this but I can't lie that I won't be coming back here regardless of other reviews. To go they even just give me boxes and don't even provide basic wrapping. Typical of Chinese style places or lack of service. Not even a checkin to see how I liked my food.

What a fun, local, neighborhood find. After years of passing by, the BF and i finally decided to give this korean, almost hole i the wall, joint a try. We went there, on a late friday night and had to wait a quick 15 mins for our table of two. The decor is simple here, no frills, surprisingly well ventilated, good for parties of 4 and small (IMO), though they can accommodate more. Shin Toe Bul Yi had an assortment of korean dishes included lots of soup options, the standard bbq meats, seafood pancake, and a variety of stews. From observation, almost every party ordered the fried chicken, so we decided to go with an order of that and the seafood "casserole" soup. Like any good korean restaurant, there was an assortment of ban chan that came alongside the meal. We were really happy with the options (broccoli, kimchee, bean sprouts, etc). The star of the show was the fried chicken. Unlike some other korean "bar food" restaurants, their fried chicken was tender, with lots of batter, and not spicy. It was perfectly crispy on the outside and super moist on the inside. Surprisingly, not too oily either. The portion was huge. That alongside the seafood soup was the perfect amount for two people. The soup had a nice variety of actual crap, mussels, squid, with noodles. It was the perfect balance to tone down the heaviness of fried chicken. Overall, a great meal with good portions, great services, and good prices. More and more, it's harder to find restaurants with a mom-pop feel in the city. Nice that this place is still standing and thriving.

We've been going to this restaurant for many many years. We never fail to order their fried chicken, spicy tofu soup and beef bulgogi. Their banchan are so incredibly fresh! They only do to-go service right now.

I saw a lot of locals and figured that could only be a good sign. Everyone had a plate of fried chicken and i needed one too! It had a crispy and light batter (sometimes a little to much) and was still moist inside. Pretty good K.F.C. The dumpling and egg soup was my favorite dish. Plenty of dumplings and glass noodles made this a simple but tasty soup. The seafood pancake was HUGE. Dense and chewy. Tasted a bit on the oily side though it didn't skimp on the seafood. There were pieces of squid in every bite. They could use more ventilation. Walked out as if i had korean bbq.

Started frequenting this local Korean restaurant. Delicious, decent portions of food. Would recommend visiting.

I remember coming here when they started the restaurant 25 years ago.... they still served people dining in during lunch time... I & my college friends always visited this premise once a week - not only because the food were affordable but the owner always threw in freebies to us - her loyal patrons... 25 years after, they currently only serve to go orders during lunch time 12-2:30pm but keep dinner hours the same from 5-9:30PM. 25 years later, ownership never changed and food quality stay the same.... Price has inflated not too much to make sure repeat customers keep coming and we, their loyal patrons, never forget for what both husband & wife did for us the last 25 years... In the past we remember we always came in big groups and we ordered various of dishes: kalbi, bulgogi, spicy pork, seafood or calamari bookeum, seafood pancake and the owner always threw in either soon tofu or japchae for free depends on what we ordered... if we ordered jap chae, she gave us free soup or if we ordered the soup, she gave us free jap chae.... consistently that made us become their loyal patrons for a long time... Nowadays, I always stop by during lunch hours and order their lunch specials.... whatever you pick from their lunch specials menu worth the price.... everything is less than $10 except their kalbi order.... but portion is enormous come with their side banchan... and taste is marvelous... if you never visit this merchant in the past, it is time to do so... 25 years in business with same ownership should have said something, right?